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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 53 post(s) |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
66
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 00:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Copied my last post from the other thread incase it gets overlooked:
Just did 3 low sec serpentis sites. The hacking difficulty was much easier then in the sites that i did yesterday. Only lost one container. The loot was underwhelming still. 2 decryptors from a data site, worth 11m. 7.5m and 10.5m from two relic sites.
As i used a cargo scanner beforehand i can tell you that there was quite a bit of a discrepancy between what is in the sites and what i managed to get eventualy. 2 decryptors of i think 6 or 7. There was a bpc and two skillbooks in the last relic site (Decayed Serpentis Quarry) of which i got none. With 8 containers and the loot spew the chance to get the bpc is what like 30%? That just doesn't cut it. In the old site when there spawned a bpc in one of the cans you got it. End of story.
But as i wrote in one of my earlier posts i don't even know how this can be balanced. If you put 3 bpc's in to give me as solo a reasonable chance to get one then a group of explorers can easily exploit the system and farm goodies en masse since for them it's not based on luck to get one but a certainty to get all. (or almost all, they can still lose a container to the hacking)
edit: thinking about it i actualy know how it can be balanced to be fair: by scaling the loot and the number of cans according to the number of players on grid. Which then defeats the whole purpose of why the loot spew was invented in the first place.
Added comment:
My suspicion that the new mechanic is exploitable is just a suspicion at this point. I know that it could somewhat balance out because when you're alone you don't have to share the loot. But someone should crunch the numbers because i think the discrepancy on luck dependancy is there between solo and group exploration. Especialy with rare and expensive items like the new pos bpc's the numbers could swing in favor of group exploration since a streak of bad luck is way less likely (not grabbing the right can when expensive bpc has spawned on the site).
On another note:
- readability of the hacking game is suboptimal. It's hard to distinguish the grey nodes from the background no matter the settings for the window
- loot spew sometimes feels laggy (hover mouse over icon but it doesn't show the name immediately)
- when two cans are close at each other it gets tricky to click the correct one. sometimes its not possible to click the right one even when the mouse is on top of it
- icons still too small and the mechanic too twitchy. maybe add an option to make the cans "magnetic" to the mouse pointer? That should help if ther's lag or if ppl use a trackpad or simply have bad motoric skills |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 01:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Toddfish sounds like you ran into the same problem i did on sunday with a nullsec guristas site. Lost 3 containers there, managed two others only on the second attempt. Found the minigame obscenely hard on some tries. Also used a skilled out char, rigs, t2 analyzers.
Another thing, i noticed today that after failing a container on the first try and then hacking it there was still loot in it afterwards (i guess deducted from the full loot as a punishment for failing). Is this intentional or a bug? |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
70
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 11:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:But on that note I don't think I agree with the ability to cargo scan these sites, it would be like Indiana Jones walking up to a ancient ruin and saying to himself "I don't know these ruins only have a couple gold coins, I will pass"
That shouldn't be changed tho. You can scan everything in the rest of Eve including overseers in escalations which makes them farmable for the perfect loot. And that never was changed. We already have the inconsistency with the rest of the game via the magical tractor beam.
Cargo scan doesn't really help to get the goodies per se as you always try to get the best cans anyway based on their name. But it helps to prioritise. For instance i was in a site with 8 containers yesterday. That would make me quite nervous on TQ due to time involvement. Cargo scan showed two containers only had t1 salvage. So that's the ones i would do last or ignore completely.
You trade this ability for a mid slot that could be used for other useful stuff. Probe mod, ecm, mwd or whatever. So it's not unfair in any way imo. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
70
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 12:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Sorry I can't take this part seriously, are you implying that someone would scan down a complex run the complex all the way up to the point the faction ships comes out, scan the ship and then warp off because they didn't like what loot was in there?
Yes some people collect escalations, scan the overseer, come back after the next downtime to scan him again. Rinse and repeat till jackpot is there. It works for escalations because the 24h timer resets every time you warp in and you have these sites for yourself. You can test this on regular ded sites but it doesn't make sense there because someone else will find the site and kill the overseer before you. Has been like this for years and never was changed afaik. I guess because not too many ppl do it. Have to run quite a few anomalies to get enough escalations for steady income this way. farming 4/10 is more popular as far as i can tell.
Thread on reddit if you don't believe me:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1aq9tv/free_tip_for_explorers_out_there/ |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
71
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Question: Are the can names in reality completely irrelevant for grabbing the good loot? Just got a enhanced ward console from a scraps container. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
71
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
I got salvage from equipment and materials containers also. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 01:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Since we're talking about income i must say so far my average is below TQ. Having run a couple more sites today in low and null, despite getting a bit better at the pinata i average about 40m in nullsec (best was 84m) and 10m in low sec (best around 20m). I know its hard to put a number on random income like exploration. But from what i've heard about nullsec and my own experience with low sec exploration the numbers don't add up yet.
And truth be told i'll not be happy with the income even if it reaches pre-Odyssey levels given the hassle of doing them and something i'm about to explain:
Profession sites used to be more of a bonus. You did them on the side when you stumpled upon them, either quickly refitting your ship or using a all in one fit to run both exploration and combat sites. Perhaps for newer chars it was a bit different.
With Odyssey it goes now in a direction where the profession sites become more specialiced. To master the hacking game and loot spew you'll want a ship that is maxed out for the job. Rigs, mods, perhaps a hacking implant for your char. Multiple tractor beams in the hi slots and a fit for insta locking helps a lot with the loot pinata (something i learned today).
So it goes in a direction where you have to chose between profession and combat sites. The thing is as it stands now ther's still a lot more isk to be made in combat sites. Enough people manage to have an income in the billions per week. For profession sites on the other hand you're probably gonna count in tens or hundreds of millions instead.
Some lucky fellas will get the pos bpc but in the newest dev blog it's decribed as a very very rare drop. So i doubt its close anywhere near the probability of a good drop in a combat site.
If profession sites are supposed to be their own thing then it should pay off to specialice in them. Perhaps not quite as good as combat sites but definitely closer then what it used and is right now. Otherwise i see it drifting into obscurity. For older players it doesn't pay well enough, newer players will stick to for a while maybe then move on.
Karsa Egivand has a point about the market making the prices. So just putting more salvage, decryptors and datacores in will have a negative effect. Instead loot needs to be spiced up with a wide variety of things and different loot tables in different parts of the game world. I'm not sure with what exactly the loot tables could be spiced up. Perhaps more pirate bpc's. maybe cosmos stuff? It's so obscure right now. With better supply for the materials and bpc's whole new markets could evolve from it.
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Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 01:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Hidden_Ruins
This site hasn't been replaced with a new one. Got it as a relic site in nullsec. Was a bit surprising to get welcome by 3 battleships after warping to it. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sharing with you the awesome abomination that i used to run null sec sites last night:
http://i.imgur.com/zzsBLLI.jpg
That's the future of exploration right there. A new ship for a new generation. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote: How'd you get a Covert-Op cloak on a Noctis? Aren't they limited to covert ships?
It's a Tengu. That's just the name of the fit |
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Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Scuzzy Logic wrote: The fit whispered to me last night: ''Kill me, it hurts to liiiiiive''
Pretty much what all the new fits that i come up with scream. Anything that helps with survivability is gonna compromise the hacking and loot amount. The containers being directly at or close to warp in point doesn't help either. You're pretty much a fly waiting to get squashed. So might as well go full on risk and hope the higher loot amount sets of the unavoidable losses.
Not gonna fly this 400m piece of art into nullsec on TQ tho if the loots stays as poor as it is. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 16:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
The loot spewing out slower doesn't that make one problem worse while improving on another? Personaly i have a problem especially right in the beginning when all cans are close to each other to pick the right can that i want or not by accident clicking on something else like the containers or whatever else stuff is floating around there. It would have been better to tweak the range and the speed of the tractor instead. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Any chance for virus strenght bonus to Force Recon Ships? That would create a nice progression from T1 Frigate>T2Frigate>T2 Cruiser>T3 Cruiser as Force Recon is somewhere in the middle of price range and in terms of versatility. Slot layout is nice for exploration + ability to fit cov ops.
Pilgrim used to be a popular ship for profession sites with the old sites.. Falcon looks like a good replacement after the removal of the rats. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 01:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Here is a common issue that i have with the loot spew. It's one of the things that makes it so clunky and rage inducing for me:
http://i.imgur.com/SMe1Iu1.jpg
I want to see what the can at the red arrow is. But the mouse doesn't register it. I actualy have to move the mouse into the yellow area to see the name or to select the can. This happens a lot when cans are close together. It wastes precious time and is frustrating. Hence i wrote earlier that the slower cans, while making one issue better make another one worse.
Another problem that now starts to go on my nerves more and more is cans flying behind ui elements which makes for some hectic camera adjustments to grab them. I already freed up as much space as possible in the center of the screen. It's still an issue and i have a big screen. This is gonna infuriate people with small screens. Therefore among other reasons please reconsider to put the cans in the overview.
Naomi Hale wrote:Ali Aras wrote:I understand that people are mad about that, but I feel that that's something for them to get over and start treating like a challenge. If loot values are still too low, they can be tweaked a bit. EVE isn't supposed to be easy. Not trolling, Genuinely curious. Aren't you, as a CSM, supposed to represent the people? That statement seems counterintuitive.
Yea i don't get it. Among the very few positive voices two CSM members. Looks like brown nosing to me. If anything CSM should be even mnore mad then regular players since they wern't consulted on the exploration changes. The conduct is noted and taken into consideration for the next election. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 12:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
If multiboxing is the enemy there's a simple solution: ban multiboxing. Of course that's not gonna happen because it's massively important to CCP's income stream. So let's not get all hypocritical and implement game mechanics against multiboxing to the detrimental of those who like a profession that never was a multiboxing heaven to begin with.
Seeing as this thread has become a little chaotic and it's hard to follow what everybody stands for here is a sum up of my opinion:
- hacking has potential, can be enjoyable with some tweaks and should be the center of the new sites - spew = bad. I don't see it ever to become fun and feeling rewarding since the design is flawed on a fundamental level and not a matter of fine tuning - average income should be higher then on old sites because profession sites are now a more specialized activity and require to decide between focussing on them or combat sites.
As it stands i'm gonna stop doing profession sites on TQ and focus solely on combat sites. It remains to be seen what the overall effect is. Whether it stops a lot of veterans to run the sites or excites a new generation of explorers. My money is on veterans being put off. When someone like Jonny Pew, who many new explorers look up to has not much positives to say about the new sites that should give you a hint. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
75
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 14:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
No give T3 the same if not better bonus. They gonna be used for nullsec mostly due to interdiction nullifier where the hardest sites are. No point using an expensive T3 for low sec profession sites after Odyssey. Takes a lot of low sec sites to break even on the investment and you gonna lose ships with the fast probing down of sites, the distraction of the new mechanics and being a sitting duck right near warp in point. Ban them from hisec sites if you want. At least that would be consistent with the changes to 3/10 and 4/10. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
75
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 15:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:This is probably the worst thing I've ever seen you post.
T3s should not have a superior-to-T2 bonus. Ignoring that it's boring and absolutely will make T3s even more of a go-to "optimal" ship, it's completely against the spirit of what a T3 is.
I love my T3s and I will do horrible, horrible things to the person who tries to take them away from me, but I do not agree with "T3 should be flat-out better than T2 at hacking" and the general idea that everyone should be forced to fly T3 for everything because they're the super-best.
T1 should be good at hacking because you chose a ship that has a limited capacity to defend itself. T2 should be amazing at hacking because you trained for the hull and sacrificed more defenses. T3 should be just as amazing as T2, but for entirely different reasons and in an entirely different way.
I respect your opinion. I said same tho. Like Emergent Locus gives same scan bonus as t2 frig. ok with the "if not better" i went overboard. Had on the back of my head tho how much more difficult the nullsec hacking sites are and that's where you want to use the T3.
Quote:By the way, people will still fly cloaky T3s for lowsec hacking. They're still perfectly viable as all-in-one ships; even more so now that you don't need that blasted Salvager II taking up a weapon slot.
With the new sites you want instead rigs, cargo scanner, t2 tractors and sensor boosters to do it in an optimized way. All-in-one ships are gonna be even more jack-off-all-trades/good at nothing then before. If people want to fly that way more power to them. I think it's gonna be economical nonsense. And they'll be easier gank targets then ever due to the changes. I would think really really hard before risking a half billion or more ship for some decryptor and a few data cores. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 12:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tsubutai wrote:Giving Tech 3 ships a virus strength bonus of any kind is, IMO, a huge mistake because there's nothing to stop people farming even the hardest nullsec relic/data sites in ships that are at no meaningful risk of dying while doing the sites or while travelling to and fro. From a combat pve standpoint, the power of the cloak/nullifier subsystems is counterbalanced by the fact that they cripple the ship's dps, making cloaky nullified ships unsuitable for running high end combat sites alone. However, the loss of damage and a low slot is completely immaterial if you're running relic and data sites. Furthermore, the design of the relic and data sites is such that people running them will be virtually impossible to catch if they're paying any kind of attention to local and d-scan because they can cloak up at will with no NPCs to lock them up or tackle them. Therefore, Tech 3s will be able to farm these sites without being subject to any risk of dying either in site or when travelling between sites. Giving them a virus strength bonus on top of that seems completely excessive.
Have you played the new sites? It's hard to pay attention to that or to keep the attention up over longer period of time. The minigame and loot mechanic are very distracting from everything else. The ships in the sites are sitting ducks near the warp in point. Many explorers will lose their ships for not being absolutely on their toes.
Also afaik in nullsec the sites are still connected to the industry index so you have to look for them in more populated areas of nullsec where its easier to get caught in the site.
Another thing. Suppose as an explorer you have cargo scanned a container and see there is a jackpot in. Just in this moment someone jumps into the system. Do you warp to your safe spot and have the site despawn or do you take the risk and stay? |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 12:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tsubutai wrote:That aligns in under 4 seconds (which is actually better than a lot of covops fits achieve) and has bonused tractors to grab any juicy cans you can't reach for whatever reason. I am consistently able to get 80%+ of the spewed cans in this setup, exactly as I was in a Heron beforehand.
That ship costs about 5x times as much as a Buzzard. The big perk you get for that isk is the interdiction nullifier, which sounds fair to me. If i compare the ships next to each other the one other thing that really stands out is the probing strenght for the Tengu. It can be a monster probing boat now due to the bonus and mid slots for scanning array. That i would defo consider overpowered compared to the scan frigs. Maybe that would be a more fitting point to aim your criticism at.
I think it would be a bit silly if only frigs were good for hacking. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 13:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thinking a bit more about the Tengu virus bonus. If it was removed or nerfed i would defo use a t2 frig instead. Wouldn't want to risk losing a faction pos bpc because i didn't max out my hacking.
Would that really change a thing tho? I would then run the sites in a disposable frig that with some luck pays off from a single site and haul the loot back in a nullified Tengu that i've parked in a safe place somewhere meanwhile. That to me actualy sounds the most economicaly reasonable thing to do either way. |
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Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 00:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tsubutai you have a point. That Proteus fit is pretty boss for the job.
I stand by my opinion that it would be silly if only frigs were good for hacking. The sensible thing for CCP would be to create an intermediate step. I've mentioned this a few times but so far looks i'm alone with that opinion.
The Force Recon ships look pretty good to me. What if they get a +15 virus strenght bonus? That would make them at roughly 200m isk price tag the best hacking ships. But they have neither the probe strenght bonuses of t2 frig and t3 cruiser nor the nullifier of t3.
The null sites could perhaps tweaked a bit so they emmit a smartbomb after failed hack so you have to fit at least some tank and not put all stabs and nanos in the lows or probe mods in the mids. That would mean you cant run them in frig anymore but the option to use Force Recon would make that aceptable imo. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 01:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
I like the idea of a transport exploration ship. Some of the useful loot can be quite bulky. Would be a nice incentive to not leave it behind. Don't see much room to iterate on that idea with the loot spew tho unless CCP makes an exception and puts bulky loot in the containers after the hacking. Otherwise it's gonna **** everyone else off. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 13:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Nope. If it happens, it should be +10 strength just like the CovOps. A Recon has other bonuses to make it more attractive.
Recon has bonusses which probably nobody would use for an exploration fit since its more important to fit scan arrays to make up for the lack of probe bonuses. I suggested +15 because people have a point when they say T3 shouldn't be the outright best in everything.
In an ideal world i would say it would be best if CCP comes up with a new class of t2 exploration cruisers. Slightly better bonuses on probing and virus strenght then t2 frig and t3 cruiser, decent enough cargo hold for the bulky materials, cov cloak but not much room in the slot design to deviate from the role of the ships. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 14:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Pilgrim for exploration is death with this expansion. Even with that bonus ther's not enough mid slots to fit scan arrays. If anything it would concern Falcon, Arazu and Rapier.
But really it's just one idea. I would welcome any alternative to t2 frig and t3 cruiser. More options will keep things fresh. I don't personally really care what it is in the end since i can fly pretty much everything either way. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 12:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tsubutai wrote:edit 2: in crude ISK/hour terms, that monument site was worth between 600m isk/hr on the low end and 1.4b isk/hr on the high end.
That's a strange way to look at isk/h. When i station trade and make a billion profit on some item does that mean my isk/h is around 60b?
I would be really really surprised if i play for 4 hours on tuesday night and come back with 2-6 billion. Pretty unrealistic unless i luck into a pos bpc. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 13:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Some people have bragged too much imo with what they got from the sites based on their anecdotal evidence. Would be sad if CCP thinks that's the norm. I've tested for two weeks and never lucked in a jackpot, only a handful acceptable drops. Overall not enough that i would consider doing this for a regular source of income. Low sec seemed ok for a short time then loot was nerved again from what i can tell. Have yet to find a nullsec site that yields me over 100m. I only got close to that 80% cans mark with 4 tractor II and insta lock fit which was a bit pointless to fit after the cans got slowed down and vanished quicker.
Let's see how it actualy turns out on TQ. Sisi doesn't really provide an accurate perception with the low spawn rate of sites and lack of hostiles. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 15:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Scuzzy Logic wrote:Regarding the new can speed: F*** you CCP. Just when I thought you listened, you had to go and backhand us.
Someone's not getting my money come september.
CCP needs to get real. This mechanic is crap and nothing's gonna change that. People only started to find it bearable and be a bit more positive about it when they got most of the goodies they were looking for. But of course that defeated the whole purpose of the mechanic. So now we're back where most people get fed up with it again.
I said it before, it's a bad design on a fundamental level and the symptoms show. It's all about the psychology. You can't induce positive feelings with something that will always make a player feel like he's is losing out on stuff. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 19:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
After trying the newest iteration i would agree with who said the containers disappear too quickly. This is annoying because i still find myself wasting precious time in the beginning when the containers are close together, fighting with the interface and camera, trying to get a good look at the can names. PLEASE, put the cans in the overview. This is still so tedious and clunky.
You said you want to make this work in the 3d space. Let me tell you there is no sense of where the cans are in the 3d space because the brackets are all the same size no matter the distance and position in the room. Only via wild camera acrobatics i get a sense of their positioning and then be able to check the names and choose. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 01:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:What I've learned about cargo scanner is that scanning cans is totally pointless because its unreliable.
The cans may contain items which dont appear on scan, or dont contain items which are displayed in scan - basically after the scan you know exactly the same as before what loot is possible and what is not, you could simply omit that without loosing any information.
No, the cargo scan has been reliable to me. Only the random crap doesn't show up. The goodies do. Only which cans exactly to scoop isn't entirely clear to me yet. But other players will have figured that out in no time once the spew hit TQ. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 01:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
I could swear i got some decrytors from data cans. |
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Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
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Posted - 2013.06.04 12:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tsubutai wrote:I specifically said it was a crude measure; the point is that the high end 0.0 hacking sites are now quite lucrative, to the point that they are at least competitive with the high end combat sites. As such, they should require a similar investment to run, and farming them should entail similar levels of risk. You'd be lucky to get multiple billions for your two hours given that there will be a few minutes of moving from system to system and probing in between running sites, but I'd be surprised if you didn't get a few hundred million assuming you have appropriate skills, are reasonably good at the hacking minigame, and are in blue space or a quiet backwater.
You had intact armor plates and a good bpc in the site that you use as a measure. That's a jackpot, not the norm. In the weeks of testing i didn't luck into a nullsec site that yielded me over 100m. So your math is quite off from my perspective. You assume all sites are as great as your jackpot when they really arn't. In the dev blog it was said the faction pos bpc drop is very very rare so i doubt it can be compared with the rate of good drops from combat sites.
Granted i have not much experience with nullsec exploration on TQ. Will start doing it this week, see if its worth it. Don't think its worth doing the profession sites in hisec and low sec as a main profession, except for new players. To my knowledge the sites in nullsec are tied to the industry index so in your "quiet backwater" ther's probably a whole lot of nothing. People who have done nullsec profession sites in the past say you have to be lucky to find one in the wastelands. So i have to look for them in populated areas, which i assume makes it not idiot proof farming for a neutral. For people surrounded by blues that's a different story but should have no bearing on how its like for neutrals. If it's too easy for them then CCP should perhaps look into randomizing the spawns all over null. That would make more sense anyway as long as the profession is called exploration and an actual incentive to go out into the deeper regions to find riches.
Quote:However, if the leftmost can isn't hacked to complete the site, it won't despawn, so you may end up with a bunch of partially-completed sites that have been stripped of all the good loot but can't despawn because they still have a few unhacked cans that contain only junk.
Profession sites despawn when you warp out no matter if completed or not. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 16:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:Are we absolutely sure that is still the case now on TQ as that doesn't appear to be how it's been on SiSi?
Been like that for me on Sisi. Someone said it always was like that. So i assume its still the case unless the've changed it in one of the recent updates. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 20:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:I had a couple of sites that I could warp to after failing.
On TQ i warped out of a site with two cans not completed today and the site immediately despawned. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 23:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
First impressions from TQ:
Did a bunch of sites in nullsec today. Loot average around 100m per site. That's better then i ever managed on Sisi. Had luck with two stacks of intact armor plates tho. They make like 60% of my todays loot value. Data sites were a bit meh in comparison to the Relic sites. But overall i can't complain.
Strangly the minigame i found a bit more annoying then the loot spew today. I think that is because i never found multiple nullsec sites on Sisi. When doing multiple sites in a row the clicking is a bit extreme. But i think that can be fixed with a smaller grid where instead more time is spent thinking about strategic moves instead of just clicking, clicking, clicking. Some of the minigames were a bit nuts in regard to difficulty but i didnt lose too many containers. I lost more containers by dodging locals.
One site despawned out of nowhere. Someone jumped into the system and started scanning, i cloaked up and tried to get a bit of distance between me and the containers. I really wasn't far out only like 30-40km and suddenly the despawn triggered. Maybe that trigger area could be made a bit bigger.
In summary the nullsec sites felt well balanced to me in regard to difficulty and loot but ther's plenty room to make them more enjoyable. All in all i feel a bit more positive about it after trying it on TQ. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
85
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
In regard to cargo scanner. It's the one thing that redeems the spew and makes it bearable for solo player. Without it you would never get a decent bpc because the goodies are in parts containers for vast majority of the data sites. The income also wouldn't roughly match pre Odyssey levels. Before the can names actualy had an influence on Sisi my average was pathetic.
I know it somewhat negates the original intent of the spew but at this point it's a necessity and the thing that makes the sites work despite all the negativity that was expressed in early Sisi testing. If CCP wants to buff group exploration to its original intend they need to find a solution to scale the loot and number of cans to the number of players on grid. Perhaps if the container registers fleet members of the hacker within 10km radius.
Tabane Shinonono wrote:After getting a cargo scanner and knowing what kind of spew container to go for, I realised that a solo player can grab almost everything s/he is aiming for (ie, BPC/Decryptors/not so sure about t2 salvage though) without much effort. TBH my loot that I want per container has doubled/tripled and I have not missed out on a single piece of Decryptor/BPC/Skillbook that could be dropped. Perhaps CCP could randomize or obfuscate what each spew container contains instead of like making it so easy with its parts/equipment/data/scrap containers. Else , Decryptors might be going for 1m per pc soon at the rate we are picking them up like pebbles on the beach. Hacking Minigame Loot Distribution : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=243898&find=unread
Not feeling it. Average pre Odyssey was roughly 20m per low sec site, 100m per nullsec site (if i can believe those who did it before). That's roughly at the same levels where it is now.
CCP can always tweak loot tables if some items become too common and their price deteriorating. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:I don't expect the cargo scanner method to stay. Mainly since it negates the main reason they added in the horrible mechanic, which is making it a group activity.
It's a pretty crappy situation. On the hand i can see how it doesn't work as intended on the other hand i don't want the spew going back to how god awful it was in the early Sisi testing. I can't wrap my head around how this can be balanced in a way that makes it work for a group but doesn't ruin it for solo explorers.
Some sort of scaling mechanism is the best idea that i can come up with. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 13:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
I wonder how many people actualy tried group exploration in these last few days? Perhaps if numbers show that there really isn't much interest in group exploration (which i reckon) CCP can do away with this whole idea and spare us the pain. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
91
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 12:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Some thought after playing this for a few more days:
- The minigame makes my wrist hurt after a couple sites in nullsec. it's just too much clicking. Feels like playing Diablo. So i would really like to see the minigame develop in a less clicky but more strategic direction
- The threshold for running the sites in null is too low and that's why we see the loot market prices in free fall. I've seen a km for a Buzzard with over billion loot and t1 analyzers fitted. The loot tables are not the problem imo because running sites in nullsec should pay well. But not every low skilled char in a cheap ship should be able to farm them in such a way. The skill requirements to get adequate virus coherence and strenght for the highest tier sites needs to be higher.
Make some new skills for that or use existing ones like encryption methods. I would happily specialize and learn them if it means less competiton and casual exploring out there. Also probably needs something that puts out damage to the ship. Rats are removed but maybe some defensive nodes or smartbomb for punishing failure. And perhaps a necessity to fit expensive mods for the hacking or a new set of hacking implants. Anything really that sets a higher threshold.
Or at least as a compromise tier the sites more distinctively like the ded sites. Have the lower tiers still be able to run in cheap frig but with payouts closer to hi and low sec and higher tier sites that absolutely require better skills, mods and some tank. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
98
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 15:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
If half finished sites stick around for long time that's not a good solution for the issues with these sites. More frustrating then anything. Just raise the damn entry barrier! |
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
202
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Posted - 2013.07.24 21:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
So any news about changes to the data/relic sites? It's been disturbingly quiet on the dev front the last couple weeks. This is poor form releasing a half assed "expansion" and then let it rot and have it run into the ground, when really it needed some swift tweaks. The loot drops need a rework, especialy for data sites. And i would like to hear whether the hacking minigame and loot spew is still worked on. |
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Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
203
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Posted - 2013.08.01 15:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote: The devs should be getting back into the office from their holidays round about now so if they're intending to make any changes they'll only just be starting to look at them.
Ah well can't blame them for not spending the short Icelandic summer in the office. But begs the question if a spring/autumn release schedule for the expansions wouldn't be better. |
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
223
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Posted - 2013.08.14 00:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
This is some bullshit. It was promised that development of the new exploration site mechanics will not be abandoned after initial release. Two months ago it was also said that tweaking the loot tables is on high priority. Not a single fecking word from a dev since and now the thread just gets unstickied. I assume the mess will now just left to rot like so many other half arsed features. Great job CCP, hope you're proud of yourselfes! |
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
230
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Posted - 2013.08.22 17:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tell me one good reason why the feature that was advertised as the big selling point for the last expansion wouldn't be on high priority?
It's kinda like i advertised a big machine gun expansion for my fps, hyped all the players, excited them for it but then on release day only gave them some pistols that look like machine guns. Surely you could see how this would **** off some players and why it should be rather high on the priority list.
Situation with the new exploration sites is very similar. It was advertised as something that it turned out not to be and got pretty useless quickly thanks to the market crashes. |
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